the obama team obviously knows they had a poor showing in last week's debate. so they've got to gain some traction here. booiden is a really good debate. i think you'll see ryan be mr. wonky. that's his role. a lot of numbers you'll hear from him. probably more zingers from biden. i think they have some ground to make up. >> you know, i don't think a lot of people necessarily realize how much debating joe biden has done throughout the course of his career. he's run for president six or seven times. i exaggerate for effect. chair of the foreign relations committee. here's a guy who's spent a great deal of time in public in a healthy exchange of ideas. >> that's right. that's right. i think we'll see that on display. if you look back at 2008, he was probably the best debater out of the field. i think he's going to bring those skills to bear. he had a real high-wire act last time in 2008 when he had to go against sarah palin. i think he came out of that debate looking like the statesman. i think ryan has to pass the commander in chief test. i'm not sure if when pe